ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
This is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News. I'm Robert Siegel.
MICHELE NORRIS, host:
And I'm Michele Norris.
Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign is reorganizing one day after firing its top strategist. Mark Penn played a major role in crafting the campaign's message, including the now famous Red Phone ads.
(Soundbite of red phone ad)
Unidentified Man: It's 3 a.m. and your children are safe and asleep, but there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing.
(Soundbite of phone ringing)
Unidentified Man: Something's happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call.
NORRIS: Mark Penn was released from the campaign because of conflicts over his consulting work on behalf of a trade agreement that Clinton opposes. The campaign says he'll still do some polling, but he will no longer serve as chief strategist. This is just the latest distraction Penn has caused the Clinton campaign.
NPR's national political correspondent Mara Liasson joins me now. Now, Mara, just briefly, for those who perhaps don't know exactly what happen, explain who Mark Penn is and a little bit more about why he was fired.
MARA LIASSON: Well, he's the chief strategist for the Clinton campaign - he was. He certainly created the strategy that focused on her strength and experience. He also happens to be at the very same time the CEO and president of Burson-Marsteller, which is a global public relations giant. And in that capacity, he met with the Colombian ambassador to help plan a strategy to promote a Colombian free-trade deal that Hillary Clinton opposes. After that meeting, he said it was an error in judgment. The Colombian government promptly fired Burson-Marsteller and then he also was fired by the Clinton campaign.
NORRIS: Now, Mara, by this - by way of explanation, is it unusual for someone to be the top strategist for a presidential campaign while also running a public relations firm, particularly a public relations firm that represents clients that take positions that are oppositional to the candidate that they represent?
LIASSON: That's the problem here. There are many consultants who also have private clients. David Axelrod, who's Barack Obama's consultant, has another business that does advise groups, like a Chicago-based utility Cable Vision, the Chicago Children's Museum. So far, we haven't heard of anything he's done that is actually in direct opposition to a stand that Barack Obama has taken. George W. Bush, however, in 2000, when he hired Karl Rove, insisted that Rove give up all his other clients.
NORRIS: Okay, so what does this mean for the Clinton campaign now that Mark Penn is gone?
LIASSON: Well, I think it's almost more important that a guy named Geoff Garin has been brought into the campaign than Mark Penn is leaving. Garin was brought in about three weeks ago. He has very deep ties to the Democratic Party. Penn, on the other hand, has deep ties to the Clintons. And it's been explained to me by people inside and outside the campaign that Garin's job is to make sure that as Senator Clinton battles very hard to win these remaining 10 contests, she does it in a way that doesn't destroy the party or her legacy.
And that could mean that we won't hear comments along the lines of "only two candidates are qualified to be commander-in-chief." In other words, comments that seem to elevate John McCain over Barack Obama. And one potential sign of this possible change in tone is that right now in Pennsylvania, she is running a 3 a.m. ad. However, it's targeted to John McCain, not Barack Obama and it's about the economy.
NORRIS: Now, Mark Penn will still do some polling for the campaign. He's not gone altogether.
LIASSON: No, he's not gone altogether. His company still has the contract to do polling. And, you know, people say, oh, Penn is responsible for all the trouble she's in now. I think it's fair to say that he didn't fully appreciate the threat that Barack Obama posed. But on the other hand, he did craft a campaign for Hillary Clinton to run as who she was. She wasn't the change candidate. She was the incumbent. Because she was a woman, she had to run on strength and experience. And because she had high negatives, she couldn't win without going after Obama. So, I think it's fair to give Penn credit for the things that went right in this campaign, but also, of course, he has to take responsibility for the things that didn't work.
NORRIS: Thank you, Mara.
LIASSON: Thank you, Michele.
NORRIS: That was NPR's Mara Liasson. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.