LEILA FADEL, HOST:
After 12 Emmy wins, "Hacks" has become one of the most honored sitcoms currently on the screen. And tonight, its final season begins.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "HACKS")
JEAN SMART: (As Deborah Vance) Tonight will be my last show.
HANNAH EINBINDER: (As Ava Daniels) No, no, no, no. What are you doing?
FADEL: I know. I feel the same way. Don't go. That's a clip from the end of last season. Here's a summary. Deborah Vance is an old-school comedian who broke down walls in her industry, but she got bloodied along the way. She battled to her dream job, late-night talk show host, with the help of her young writer, Ava Daniels. But when Ava was forced out, Deborah quit in allegiance, and that cost her her voice. For this final season of "Hacks," she's taking her narrative back.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "HACKS")
SMART: (As Deborah Vance) I refuse to be remembered on other people's terms as a quitter or the person who killed late night or some hysterical woman. I have worked too hard, and I have fought far too long. I will be remembered for my accomplishments.
PAUL W DOWNS: We've always said she's sort of an amalgamation of Phyllis Diller and Joan Rivers.
FADEL: That's one of the creators of "Hacks," Paul W. Downs. He actually plays her agent on the show. And he developed the concept with his wife, Lucia Aniello.
LUCIA ANIELLO: What we also really wanted to get underneath is what it took for a woman during her career to become successful and what that did to her as a person.
FADEL: And there's a third creator - their best friend, Jen Statsky.
JEN STATSKY: We always want to be funny first. So it's never that we are saying, oh, this issue is important to me, so I'm going to - we're going to get on our soapbox about it.
FADEL: I asked how three people can run a show simultaneously and not kill each other. Here's Lucia.
ANIELLO: I think when it comes to writing, I think it's really just equal. We each have a vote. We each have a say.
FADEL: Yeah.
ANIELLO: I think that sometimes one person will be very passionate about something, and that can kind of...
DOWNS: Tip the scale.
ANIELLO: ...Tip the scale.
STATSKY: You can have a passion override.
ANIELLO: (Laughter).
DOWNS: Yeah. Lucia's sister, Genevieve Aniello, who is a writer on "Hacks," was saying that you're all good at the math of storytelling, but when the three of you are together, it's like you can do quantum physics.
FADEL: Oh, wow.
ANIELLO: We really committed to making sure that we would be most deferential to each other's feelings because at the end of the day, well, Paul and I are married. So we kind of...
FADEL: (Laughter).
ANIELLO: ...Have to make sure that...
DOWNS: We vowed to do that.
ANIELLO: Yeah.
DOWNS: I mean, that's part of the thing.
ANIELLO: But also, Jen is our best friend, and we love being with her and hanging with her and working with her. So, like, we genuinely do care about how each other feels, and we want each other to be heard. And so that kind of exists as our North Star, and then the work comes behind that.
FADEL: Paul, you're also in this position where you're writing and directing yourself. How do you do that?
DOWNS: Well, sometimes I'm shy about pitching for myself or...
FADEL: Yeah.
DOWNS: ...Even including myself in the cut.
ANIELLO: It's to his detriment, too, because he should be a star of the show.
STATSKY: Yeah.
ANIELLO: But he's like, no, that's not what's best for the show. But Jen and I often disagree with him. And that's - and we have passion.
STATSKY: Yes. We have passion about that, yeah.
FADEL: Passion override. Yeah.
DOWNS: Yeah. Yeah.
FADEL: I mean, the other thing about the show as it's gone on is it's been so prescient. Like, if you think about what is happening in the real world when it comes to the state of comedy, the value of comedy, free speech, the conglomerations of media and having more and more coming under one person's control, that's all in this show. It's like, you had it on the show, and then Jimmy Kimmel gets pulled off the air. You know what I mean?
ANIELLO: Yeah.
FADEL: Like, it's...
DOWNS: We don't - we're not proud of that.
(LAUGHTER)
STATSKY: I know.
ANIELLO: We're not proud.
STATSKY: We've yet to predict anything awesome.
(LAUGHTER)
DOWNS: Yeah. Yeah.
STATSKY: Although I guess...
DOWNS: The first female late-night host.
STATSKY: ...The first female late-night host.
DOWNS: Yeah.
STATSKY: But...
FADEL: Yeah.
ANIELLO: That didn't happen.
DOWNS: Hasn't happened. Yeah.
STATSKY: Yeah.
DOWNS: At least on a legacy network...
STATSKY: Right.
DOWNS: ...At the 11:30 slot.
STATSKY: Yeah.
ANIELLO: It's also the tricky thing of, you know, when you have a show, you want it to just be entertaining and give people joy and an escape, but you also recognize the tremendous privilege it is to have a show. And the ideas you put there out in the world will reach people. And so I think we always were trying to balance with this show making it funny, making it entertaining, making it something people could have joy watching but also saying something.
FADEL: Yeah, and it feels like that. It's not a heavy show, but it has weight. You know, it's gotten so much acclaim - 62 Emmy nominations, 12 wins so far. Did you ever think, well, maybe we don't stop at Season 5?
STATSKY: (Laughter).
ANIELLO: Certainly.
DOWNS: Some of us.
STATSKY: Some of us. Yeah, most of us.
FADEL: Was there a passion override here?
STATSKY: (Laughter).
ANIELLO: You know, there was some passion. And we get to make a show with people we love. And so to walk away from that - to choose to walk away from that seems psychotic.
DOWNS: (Laughter).
ANIELLO: But at the end of the day, it does feel like we'd rather walk away from something that was done in its initial conception and make it the best we can make it than to continue to do it and have it be a watered-down version.
FADEL: Was it hard, strange to film that last episode?
STATSKY: I don't think it's totally hit us even yet. I think there's still part of me that thinks I'll be back on set...
DOWNS: I know.
STATSKY: ...With these people...
ANIELLO: I know.
STATSKY: ...In nine months or whatever. Like, it's hard to understand that you're out of the cycle of it, and probably a breakdown is coming for me.
(LAUGHTER)
ANIELLO: I think for me, it's going to be the night or the day after the finale airs is when I will crumple into a ball.
DOWNS: (Laughter).
ANIELLO: Because after that, there will be no more show for people to see. There's no more excitement and anticipation for, like, oh, I can't wait for you to see this. I hope you get to see this. Once it's out there in the world, there will be no more forward momentum of the show, which is going to be really, really sad.
DOWNS: It is very weird because it is something that we care so deeply about and that we created. So it is our baby. And it's so weird to put it out into the world and say goodbye to it because it's not - you know, it's not like it comes home for spring break, you know? Like, once you say goodbye to it, it's out in the world, and you - we don't work on it anymore.
FADEL: Do you already have plans for another project, the three of you together?
DOWNS: Yes.
ANIELLO: We do. We're making another baby.
FADEL: You're making...
(LAUGHTER)
DOWNS: Yeah. What's crazy is we've already scheduled things for it, which is...
FADEL: Oh, no way. And you can't talk about what it is yet?
ANIELLO: No, unfortunately.
DOWNS: I don't think we're supposed to. No. We're seeing...
FADEL: You don't want to break that news...
DOWNS: Yeah.
FADEL: ...Here on MORNING EDITION and NPR?
ANIELLO: We would love to.
STATSKY: We would love to.
ANIELLO: Honestly, we have a lot of excitement about it, and we would love to talk about it, but we aren't allowed to. You know why? It's because it might not happen, but we're hoping that it does.
DOWNS: It is at HBO. We can say that.
ANIELLO: Yes.
FADEL: OK. Very cool. So do you see that as the future for you three - to do a lot more together?
ANIELLO: I think so.
DOWNS: I hope so.
ANIELLO: Yeah.
STATSKY: Hope so, yeah.
DOWNS: If they let me.
(LAUGHTER)
FADEL: Those are the creators of "Hacks" - Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs and Jen Statsky. The show's fifth and final season is on HBO Max. Thanks to you all for this conversation.
DOWNS: Thank you.
STATSKY: Thank you.
ANIELLO: Thank you so much. And thank you for the kind words about the show.
DOWNS: Yes. Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THAT'S HOW YOU START OVER")
DIANA ROSS: (Singing) That's how you start over. That's how you begin again. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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