AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Let's note three things about the new bill to impose more sanctions on Russia. One, it was crafted by both Republicans and Democrats. Two, they say the White House is on board. And three, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina had a big hand in it before his sudden death last weekend. Well, now a bipartisan group of senators is urging colleagues to pass this bill quickly in Senator Graham's memory. And one of those lawmakers is Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, who joins us now. Welcome back, Senator.
JEANNE SHAHEEN: Nice to be with you.
CHANG: Nice to have you. So let me just first start with this question. There are already sanctions in place on Russia right now. Explain what exactly is new here.
SHAHEEN: Well, this is a bill that Lindsey Graham and Richard Blumenthal have worked on for over a year. And we have revised the bill when we reintroduced it yesterday with a bipartisan group of senators in Lindsey's honor. It's much more narrowly crafted. And it's designed to address the revenue that Russia is getting from the sale of its oil and gas.
CHANG: Right.
SHAHEEN: So it's designed to address both sanctions on financial entities in Russia, as well as oligarchs and other individuals and companies that are supporting the war in Ukraine or Russia...
CHANG: Right.
SHAHEEN: ...But also to address those countries that are buying Russian oil and gas and really funding the war. And that's the piece that I think is very different.
CHANG: Yes. And I want to talk about that piece. But I also wanted to note that you're proposing to sanction a so-called shadow fleet as well, right? This is a group of ships that Russia is using to sell and transport its oil and basically to evade previous sanctions. Did I understand that correctly?
SHAHEEN: Absolutely. And this is the first time that we would be doing that. And that's one of the biggest sources of revenue that Russia has, is using that shadow fleet to sell its oil and gas. And so we want to crack down on that in a way that puts real pressure on Russia's economy and helps push Vladimir Putin to the table to negotiate a settlement.
CHANG: Right.
SHAHEEN: Right now, the momentum is with Ukraine. Russia is losing over 30,000 casualties a month in Ukraine. Their economy is being affected. They have been affected by Ukraine's very effective targeting of their oil and gas industry through drones going deep into Russian territory. We've had both the G7 and the NATO summit come out with strong statements of support for Ukraine and funding. And the more pressure we can put on at this point, the better chance we have to get Russia to the negotiating table to end this war.
CHANG: Well, let me pick up on something you mentioned earlier. This is the part of the bill that's aimed at other countries, not Russia. I'm talking about the countries that buy the most Russian oil...
SHAHEEN: Correct.
CHANG: ...And Russian gas. This bill threatens those countries with tariffs. And the big customers there are China and India. So let me ask you, given that the U.S. imports a lot of stuff from China and India, are you at all concerned that this bill could increase the price of stuff that arrives here in the U.S.?
SHAHEEN: No. I think what it will do is discourage those countries from buying Russian oil and gas and getting it off of what's essentially the black market at discount prices. And...
CHANG: But I have to admit, it feels kind of ironic that you're all willing to give the president more tariff power here after being so uneasy with Trump's tariff policies in the past.
SHAHEEN: Well, I continue to be uneasy with his tariff policy, but I think this is a situation where there is very limited tariff authority. There's a cap on how much he can put on. And I think it's done in a way that would put pressure on the Russian economy, and that's what we want to do right now.
CHANG: I get that but...
SHAHEEN: We want to do everything possible to try and get them to the table.
CHANG: But with the Strait of Hormuz closed - other countries need energy somehow. So where can those countries get oil and gas if not from the Middle East or Russia now?
SHAHEEN: Well, they can get it from the United States, certainly. There are...
CHANG: (Laughter).
SHAHEEN: ...A lot of countries around the world that are providing oil and gas. And we're not doing it with a shadow fleet on the black market, which is what Russia is doing. And that's what we want to shut down.
CHANG: If I can spend the last minute talking about, Senator, the late Senator Graham, I mean, because his name has been invoked so much in association with this bill. I know that you call him a friend. You traveled with him to the NATO meeting in Turkey last week. What did Graham tell you about why he believes so strongly in helping Ukraine?
SHAHEEN: He has been a strong supporter of Ukraine from the beginning because I think he saw this is a country that wants to break with its communist past, that wants to move to the West, join the Western alliance in ways that are really an important signal for freedom around the world. That they have been so courageous to stand up for the last four years, to fight for their freedom against such overwhelming odds, he was committed to that. And to pass this legislation would be a fitting tribute.
CHANG: Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire. Thank you very much for joining us today.
SHAHEEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
