LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Let's turn now to Connecticut Congressman Jim Himes. He's the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. Good morning, Congressman.
JIM HIMES: Good morning.
FADEL: Thank you for being here. So we heard there from our correspondent, I mean, there's growing daylight between President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over this war in Iran. And there's also this reporting from Axios that there was this apparently expletive-filled call between Trump and Netanyahu, in which Trump demanded to know what Israel was doing and saying that people hate Israel over what they're doing right now. NPR hasn't verified this reporting, but what do you make of this growing tension?
HIMES: Yeah. Well, I don't think it's in any way surprising, right? Prime Minister Netanyahu and Donald Trump have, in many ways, opposed political incentives here, right? We know where Donald Trump's head is right now 'cause he says it four times a day on Truth Social. He wants this thing over. He's bored. He understands that one of the reasons he's got historically low approval ratings is that Americans are now paying a buck 50 more for a gallon of gas. Inflation is going up. People hate this war in the United States. He wants this over three weeks ago.
The prime minister, on the other hand, who faces elections in October - if he is perceived as, you know, first of all, you know, not finishing a job inside Israel, he -the one argument he has for reelection is that I am the most aggressive person to keep you safe. If he doesn't - if he walks away without - with an unclear victory over Hezbollah or having caved to the American president, he's in real trouble in the October elections. And of course, behind the prime minister losing, if he did, in fact, lose elections, is the possibility of legal action or, you know, real scrutiny of the lead-up till October 7. He obviously wants to avoid all of those things.
FADEL: There's also a lot of confusing or mixed messaging that's been coming from the president. We heard him tell CNBC on Monday that talks with Iran, quote, "started to get very boring," that he, quote, "couldn't care less" if negotiations are over. We also heard that he said they're back on track and going fine. I mean, how do you view these comments?
HIMES: Well, I mean, this - that's a sort of water-is-wet observation, right? I mean, (laughter) you know, from the very moment this war started, frankly, from the moment Donald Trump became president, you always get the maximalist - the most optimistic take - the greatest country, the hottest country. This war will take two weeks. We did regime change, even though, obviously, we didn't. I mean, you know, observing that the president's communications are both, you know, fantastical and, you know, optimistic is - that's what he does.
Now, what's interesting here is the contrast - right? - with President Obama in 2015, you know, because President Obama in 2015 actually did secure a deal to stop the Iranian progress towards a nuclear weapon, but it took a year of painstaking and brutal negotiations to get there. And now Donald Trump is trying to do those negotiations in a matter of days at a time when the Iranians really have the strategic upper hand with, you know, again, you know, global energy prices having absolutely skyrocketed, with the Iranians having proven that their regime can survive the worst that the American military can throw at them. You know, and again, Donald Trump is just not known for his steady application in patience, which seems to be the ingredients that you need to actually secure a real deal with the Iranians.
FADEL: You know, you bring up the 2015 deal. My co-host, Steve Inskeep, spoke to State Department spokesman Tommy Pigott yesterday on the program. And he said, well, actually, the president's focused on making a stronger deal than former President Barack Obama, that his preference has always been diplomacy, a diplomatic deal. He's a dealmaker. From your position in leadership on the House Intelligence Committee, do you have any understanding that the U.S. is closing in on a diplomatic path to the end of the war with a better deal than what existed in 2015?
HIMES: I mean, come on. That's absurd on the face of it. This is a president who prefers diplomacy. Really? Tell that to Venezuela. Tell that to Cuba. Tell that to Denmark and Greenland. Tell that to the people of Iran. I mean, it's just, you know, Orwellian "Nineteen Eighty-Four" stuff. Of course he doesn't abide by diplomacy 'cause diplomacy is boring, and you need to compromise, and you can't claim the absolute wins that the president wants. So, no. No. We're - you know, look, the Iranians understand that there's a lot more damage they can do. They can destroy an awful lot more energy infrastructure. They've got - they've - you know, they're in a strategically positive place.
FADEL: That's Democratic Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut. Thank you for your time and your insights.
HIMES: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
