LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For more on how the midterm results and a new Congress may affect U.S. foreign policy, we're joined by Anne Applebaum. She's a historian, staff writer at The Atlantic and host of the podcast "Autocracy Of America (ph)." Good morning, and welcome back to the program.
ANNE APPLEBAUM: Oh, thanks for having me.
FADEL: So how will this election, seen as a stunning rejection of the president and his policies, change the way the world views the United States?
APPLEBAUM: The most important shift in perception of the United States has come from the fact that the U.S. no longer, under Trump, saw itself as the leader of the democratic world, as a member of a big alliance in Europe and Asia and as a country who opposed autocracy and dictatorship elsewhere. This election, first of all, will restore especially our allies' confidence in our democratic system, that it hasn't been undermined and destroyed, and will give some people a hope that eventually we'll return to the leadership role that we once had.
FADEL: Now, one of the countries that is not an ally was really gleeful over this, and that's Iran. State-linked accounts were mocking the U.S. president saying, oh, he wanted regime change in Iran, and he got it in the U.S. Do you expect to see the administration's approach to Iran - the war that Americans clearly don't approve of - to change?
APPLEBAUM: I don't expect Trump to change because Trump doesn't - you know, he doesn't think in terms of political influence. He's not that interested in what Americans think of his policies. But I do think that once the new Congress is seated, you will see pressure to end the war coming from them. You could see them trying to use the power of the purse, the appropriations committees to end the war or to influence politics. And so I think that will change the trajectory of the war sooner or later.
FADEL: What else can they do from Congress? I mean, you talked about the power of the purse. So basically, we won't fund this?
APPLEBAUM: So you will see investigations. Some of these will be corruption investigations into the - and remember that this is a president - the first president actually that we've ever had who uses the tools of American policy to enrich people around himself. And so you'll see investigations into that. But you may also see investigations into, for example, the behavior of the secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, questions about his competence, questions about the kinds of advice that the president was receiving.
And, you know, because Congress can't force the president to make changes. The president does have the ability to veto legislation, but establishing a different narrative, both about this war and more broadly about American foreign policy, is something that Congress can do if it moves fast out of the gate, if its leadership thinks hard about what its priorities are and if it chooses the right messaging.
FADEL: Now, there has been bipartisan support for Ukraine in Congress, and yet Ukraine isn't getting what it says it needs. And Europe has been panicking that Russia's war ambitions will expand. Do you expect anything to change?
APPLEBAUM: I do expect a - the bipartisan coalition that supports Iran and that, by the way - excuse me - that supports Ukraine, and that, by the way, reflects the views of the country. The Americans also support Ukraine. I do expect them to become more active. I would expect legislation forcing the president to reimpose sanctions. I can't tell you right now whether that's veto-proof, but it's not impossible that it could be because the support is so strong.
I expect, again, committee's investigations into the question of why Starlink was cut off unexpectedly. You know, the shenanigans that have taken place around the negotiation process, the fact that the negotiators were simultaneously trying to do business deals while negotiating with Putin and with Zelenskyy. I expect all of that to become more open, more part of the conversation, more part of criticism. And as I said, I would expect sanctions legislation.
FADEL: Now, the war in Iran, many Americans blame for the pain they have when it comes to affordability, affording gas. But tariffs also has had an impact, and that's an area of international policy where Congress historically plays a role. What do you expect to happen there?
APPLEBAUM: No. I expect Congress to use its ability to block the president, you know, by saying, we won't appropriate money. I expect them to use that actively.
FADEL: Anne Applebaum is a historian and staff writer at The Atlantic. Thank you so much for your time and your insights.
APPLEBAUM: Thank you.
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