Immigration dominated a Lackawanna County commissioners meeting again Wednesday with a deeply divided audience echoing national debate on the issue.
Critics of federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent tactics urged adoption of Commissioner Bill Gaughan’s proposed law regulating county employees’ behavior toward immigrants and immigration enforcement.
“We support immigration laws, but we no longer support ICE,” said Sarah Balmer, of Covington Twp. “We do not trust ICE to uphold the Constitution. Disappearing people with no due process is fundamentally un-American, and I respectfully ask that you vote in favor of this act.”
Illegal immigration crackdown supporters urged cooperation with ICE to keep America free of violent and dangerous immigrants.
“Immigrants should be allowed to stay here. I really believe in that. But let's define an immigrant and an illegal alien, because they are not synonymous. You cannot put them together, okay?” said Len Dobrzyn, of Blakely. “An immigrant, yes, he has the right to the Fourth Amendment. He went through the process ... and he did everything he's supposed to. The other guy snuck over the border, and he came here illegal(ly). Now with that border crossing, there were a lot of people that came over here that were very ugly people, pedophiles. There were murderers.”
Commissioner Thom Welby said the county is giving Gaughan’s proposal serious consideration, but county lawyers are reviewing it.
“It's not being taken lightly. We want to have all the information that is necessary to make a proper and appropriate decision,” Welby said. “And I hope that at our next meeting, March 4, we'll be able to report back to you with what we are going to do.”
What Gaughan's act would do
Gaughan’s Protect Our Neighbors Act would prohibit:
- County agencies and employees from asking about someone's immigration status, unless required by law or court order.
- Conditioning county services or benefits on immigration status, unless required by state or federal law.
- County employees from detaining someone “based solely on an ICE detainer.” The act would require a valid arrest warrant signed by a ge.
- County participation in immigration enforcement operations.
Gaughan raised the issue after immigration agents killed two people in Minneapolis last month. He warned of a dictatorial federal government if Americans don’t resist such behavior. Wednesday marked the third commissioners meeting in a row that immigration emerged as the hot topic.
Scranton businessman Bob Bolus, who has offered ICE office space, held up a photo of himself with FBI director Kash Patel and called Gaughan’s proposal to prevent county employees from cooperating with ICE “dangerous and reckless.”
“Why not explain the truth to the people that ICE is a federal enforcement agency authorized by Congress to enforce federal immigration law, and their operations are sanctioned by Congress, so it's dangerous, foolish and stupid to try and interfere with them,” Bolus said.
“We want protection from illegals, pedophiles, criminals and everyone else that's here, illegal in our country, that's where we're at.”
Mostly respectful debate
A majority of the audience that packed the commissioners meeting room strongly disagreed.
Marty Gatto, of Dalton, said Scranton fortunately has “a more diverse community than some may realize” and a rich history of immigrant communities.
“The immigrant communities of today continue that tradition, with the history of population loss, our area needs the financial and cultural advantages brought by diverse populations moving here,” Gatto said.
Cooperating with ICE could mean “more violent murders” and send “the wrong message to the immigrants and young people who are the future of this city and county,” he said.
Balmer told of how she and her daughter, adopted from China, encountered ICE agents last November in North Scranton.
They saw “armed men in tactical vests” surrounding a mail carrier.
“I had my daughter lock herself in the car, then took out my phone and started recording. They did not take the mailman. Instead, they moved to the door of the house he was delivering to” Balmer said. “They questioned an occupant, searched the house and left without whomever they were looking for. As they walked away, they noticed me with my phone. They condescendingly waved, took my picture and videoed me.”
'Enemy of the state'
Balmer said she fears she’s “been entered into an enemy of the state/woke leftist database.”
“I do not think I've ever been more afraid in my life. My daughter was unable to speak for two hours and later told me she thought they were going to shoot her mom,” Balmer said. “We had her start carrying pictures of her passport and certificate of citizenship on her phone.”
Later, she heard a story of another adopted child stopped by ICE “because, according to them, her appearance did not match her last name.”
“We live in the United States of America. We are a nation of immigrants. My daughter is a beautiful, intelligent, kind and gentle human being,” Balmer said, holding up a photo of her daughter. “(Her daughter) is a senior in high school, and should be worried about clothes, makeup and college applications. She should not be worried about being detained by her own government for not matching her last name. This is not normal. This is not okay. We cannot allow this to be okay.”
Julie Schumacher Cohen, of Scranton, said immigrants commit crimes at rates lower than U.S. citizens.
“And of those currently held by ICE, just 14% have been charged or convicted of violent crimes,” she said. “And yet, with food insecurity, rising housing and medical costs, billions of our U.S. taxpayer dollars are being used to separate families and lock people up across the country, including here in Pennsylvania, who are not a threat to anyone. We do not want Lackawanna County to be a proactive partner in a project that will be looked back upon as a low point in American history.”
State Rep. Maureen Madden, a Democrat, who represents part of Monroe County, praised the proposal, said she’s “married to a dark-skinned Puerto Rican” and fears her spouse’s arrest.
“You are standing up to a rogue government, and I wish that more local governments would do what you're doing, because the only way we get out of this is if we all rise up and we all say, this is not America, this is not democracy, and not one citizen is going to stand for their neighbors being snatched off the Street,” Madden said.
But Dobrzyn said ICE critics ignore drug cartels who send criminals into the country.
“Guys, how would you like you to take your kid to school one day, and all of a sudden they disappear. I don't, I don't,” he said. “I don't want to worry about, when I leave my house that they're (illegal immigrants are) going to break in and rape my wife. I don't want that.”
His comments drew groans and critical shouts from the audience.
David Burgerhoff, of Scranton, a former state representative candidate, decried the booing and said people don’t have to cooperate with ICE, but should avoid getting in agents’ way, too.
“Let's be smart,” he said. “We talked about the small percentage or so, they claim, 15% of, possibly millions that are actually violent criminals. That's a scary statistic.”
But Beth Perry, of Clarks Summit, said the county should keep an eye on finances while deciding whether to cooperate with ICE.
“Local governments that cooperate with ICE can be and frequently are held liable for (civil rights) lawsuits stemming from these partnerships,” Perry said. “In November, Suffolk County, New York, was ordered to pay $112 million in a lawsuit due to only unlawful detentions ... I implore you, do not collaborate with ICE.”
Attorney Michael Giannetta, a Scott Twp. supervisor, strongly disagreed, saying 77 million Americans “voted to close the border, finish the wall, and deport the illegal aliens that were allowed to come into this country under President Biden.”
“Many are criminals, and the people voted to have them removed,” Giannetta said. “The majority rules in this country ... I don't want to see Lackawanna County become a sanctuary county. I think that the county local officials should be working with federal law enforcement. That's how people are kept safe.”
Giannetta compared President Trump sending National Guard troops to protect ICE agents to President John F. Kennedy sending troops to enforce desegregation of schools in the South.
Brenda Johnson, president of the Lackawanna County chapter of the NAACP, who spoke before Giannetta, didn’t address the same issue, but made it clear she doesn’t think ICE agents follow the law. Her purse contains her passport in case she must prove her citizenship.
“I don't believe that people should be afraid to walk down the street,” Johnson said. “I've really been feeling traumatized myself. Actually, I'm considering leaving America ... Put yourself in the position of someone in a uniform, in a mask, no badge or anything, chasing your kids down the street, put yourself in the position of them, knocking on your window. I mean, dragging you out of your car.”
